18,000 Microsoft Jobs Gone... Eventually?
1. Cut Once.
2. Cut Deeply.
And might I humbly add:
3. Cut Quickly.
As of this morning, we're looking to cut 18,000 Microsoft positions including around half of the Nokia destruction-palooza orchestrated by Mr. Elop and Mr. Ballmer.
How does this affect all of Microsoft? Redmond? That's a bit unknown. Just looking at the State of Washington WARN site, I don't see a notification from Microsoft yet: http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ .
And that concerns me because now you have a level of stress and anxiety at Microsoft. First, the selfish stress about whether my job is affected. Then personal circle stress. Then partner collaboration stress. Then way out there general concerns about the company. And guess what: when folks are stressed and gossiping, they are not effectively - er, excuse me, productively (?) - implementing the latest strategy. Physiologically, they have increased cortisol and this time will turn into a fog.
That's why I hope that Cut Quickly happens. Without it, we're back to our first layoff experience. If anything broke the back of this blog, it was the first big Microsoft layoff back in 2009. How? How could the realization of a step towards Mini-Microsoft do that? Because it was implemented so poorly, with constant worries and concerns and doubts about engaging in new ideas due to expectations those would be the easiest to trim during ongoing cut-backs. When was it over? When was the "all clear" signal given?
So if this truly drags on for a year: we need a new leader. This needs to be wrapped up by the end of July. 2014.
One last small comment: yeah, everyone loves to flatten, including me. But to truly flatten engineering at Microsoft we need to decide that people management is actually a well invested career path. Most developers I know that become Leads are invariably harmless as a manager but spend most of their time deeply technical because they know that's where the rewards are. For the others that I know that have embraced becoming a people manager and have excelled there: well, if they get flattened into an Individual Contributor then they might as well leave Microsoft. Bless their hearts, but if they had to reconstitute their Dev skills to match the career ladder level they climbed to as a leader, they are sorely out of luck. I'll be honest with them. I hope all the other leaders out there are just as honest.
So.
Thoughts? Are you affected? The one bit of advice I can pass on from the previous round of layoffs: don't leave any HR 1:1 meeting without being absolutely satisfied you know everything you need to know and have everything to move forward. Because once you're out the door, for all the assurances you're going to get, it's super-hard to make a connection for more information and follow-up.
Now, excuse me, I'm sure I'll have a busy morning. And like all of you, I'm keeping an eye out for a sudden HR Generalist meeting that pops up on my calendar... until I hear the All Clear.
Mini-Microsoft Microsoft
2. Cut Deeply.
And might I humbly add:
3. Cut Quickly.
As of this morning, we're looking to cut 18,000 Microsoft positions including around half of the Nokia destruction-palooza orchestrated by Mr. Elop and Mr. Ballmer.
How does this affect all of Microsoft? Redmond? That's a bit unknown. Just looking at the State of Washington WARN site, I don't see a notification from Microsoft yet: http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ .
And that concerns me because now you have a level of stress and anxiety at Microsoft. First, the selfish stress about whether my job is affected. Then personal circle stress. Then partner collaboration stress. Then way out there general concerns about the company. And guess what: when folks are stressed and gossiping, they are not effectively - er, excuse me, productively (?) - implementing the latest strategy. Physiologically, they have increased cortisol and this time will turn into a fog.
That's why I hope that Cut Quickly happens. Without it, we're back to our first layoff experience. If anything broke the back of this blog, it was the first big Microsoft layoff back in 2009. How? How could the realization of a step towards Mini-Microsoft do that? Because it was implemented so poorly, with constant worries and concerns and doubts about engaging in new ideas due to expectations those would be the easiest to trim during ongoing cut-backs. When was it over? When was the "all clear" signal given?
So if this truly drags on for a year: we need a new leader. This needs to be wrapped up by the end of July. 2014.
One last small comment: yeah, everyone loves to flatten, including me. But to truly flatten engineering at Microsoft we need to decide that people management is actually a well invested career path. Most developers I know that become Leads are invariably harmless as a manager but spend most of their time deeply technical because they know that's where the rewards are. For the others that I know that have embraced becoming a people manager and have excelled there: well, if they get flattened into an Individual Contributor then they might as well leave Microsoft. Bless their hearts, but if they had to reconstitute their Dev skills to match the career ladder level they climbed to as a leader, they are sorely out of luck. I'll be honest with them. I hope all the other leaders out there are just as honest.
So.
Thoughts? Are you affected? The one bit of advice I can pass on from the previous round of layoffs: don't leave any HR 1:1 meeting without being absolutely satisfied you know everything you need to know and have everything to move forward. Because once you're out the door, for all the assurances you're going to get, it's super-hard to make a connection for more information and follow-up.
Now, excuse me, I'm sure I'll have a busy morning. And like all of you, I'm keeping an eye out for a sudden HR Generalist meeting that pops up on my calendar... until I hear the All Clear.
Mini-Microsoft Microsoft
1,345 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 1345 Newer› Newest»"They are letting folks go who received review scores of 1 as well as 5 in order to mitigate looking like they are retaliating or discriminating against anyone in particular. The legal angles have been thoroughly considered."
I agree. Don't ever tell us that age and health isn't a concern. Don't ever tell us that benefit costs for a 4 person family isn't considered when deciding who to cut.
Folks, Amazon has TONS of great job openings and would love to have you. Also many people I know are going to San Francisco where they're able to find a job instantly (apparently they need positions filled badly) and though it is more expensive, chances are you will a higher base salary there anyway because of the higher cost of living.
Folks who keep saying that "they also let 1's go to make it look like..." are wrong.
There was a formula based on more than just the past review score, also taking salary, and other factors into account. They did not arbitrarily lay certain people off to trick people. Please.
"Got laid off today at Windows Phone marketing along with 1 other. 12 years of service. Only 3 left in my team. 2 of them, Chine$e, can't even hold a conversation let alone sell $h1t. Someone please send these ping-pongers back to their communi$t roots ..."
You worked on Windows Phone marketing, AKA the group that converted a billion dollar ad spend into a rounding error in market share. Everything that you've done has been a complete failure on a strategic and tactial level so I'm not sure why you get one whit of sympathy (even if you were the one smart person in the room who apparently wasn't smart enough to either deliver good work or get out of there). Perhaps the demographic makeup of the team isn't the problem?
And yes it's no coincidence that older people typically make a higher salary.
Microsoft has one of the most diverse work environments when it comes to age groups (which I've always liked) so it's just silly to see people talking about Microsoft allegedly conspiring to secretly axe folks in the higher age bracket.
" there were a few sheets of paper (possibly by mistake) in the RIF packet titled ‘Workgroup Summary’ that listed the ages, titles, levels and number of all employees in my ‘Decisional Unit.’"
Age? AGE? There a discrimination lawsuit right there, sitting up and begging. Whichever person in HR left those sheets in will not be around for long, I'll guess.
Age? AGE? There a discrimination lawsuit right there, sitting up and begging. Whichever person in HR left those sheets in will not be around for long, I'll guess
Don't be silly. Those handouts are deliberate. They include an age breakdown of those kept, and those left behind. The point of them is to demonstrate that there was not discrimination against those 40 and over, and that therefore there is no point in a lawsuit.
...although I also agree with the previous post, that the actual working environment around age is pretty good. It doesn't matter how old you are, it matters how old you act.
"Age? AGE? There a discrimination lawsuit right there, sitting up and begging. Whichever person in HR left those sheets in will not be around for long, I'll guess."
But the OP clearly illustrated in the same post that most of the people laid off were not in the same age group as you'd expect.
I truly believe that age and health insurance usage were factors in my getting managed out. For four years I had gotten 3s. Then my wife developed breast cancer. A year later I got a 5 and was out the door after that review.
Despite having to deal with my wife's cancer it was probably my most productive year. I suppose immersing one's self in work was a way of not thinking about her health issues.
I spoke to my AM at Covestic and he heard the same rumor about vendor workers taking a six-month break after 18 months, however, nothing official.
"H1-Bs give us a competitive advantage."
Right, that's why
Windows 8, SUCKS
Windows Phone, SUCKS
Ford Sync, SUCKS
==============
Is it going to impact India Bangalore Gtsc support people?
==============
Who gives a $hit about that rat hole? These are 2 cent support people who know nothing but "Thank you for calling Microsoft" and somehow are on a high horse.
Newsflash you vermin in Bangalore, you are only hear because you are CHEAP!
I am ex-msft person now, and have been in and out of the company multiple times(3 NEO's) and last time I departed I was a fat ass director(L66). Most recently quit in 2012.
Generally I feel that the company did not cut deep enough. Especially after talking to few friends(who are mostly dev/test managers and directors). Most of the layoff's were IC target. There is some fear among the managers that they are being pushed back to lead and IC, but the work is still the same.
I think they should have gone deeper, taken out 10-15% of managers and that partner level folks. This would have created some fear to the rest who are sitting tight and collecting that paychecks and bonus. This would have also allowed some growth for the IC's and aspiring folks to move up. The biggest issue when good IC's and smart hires used to leave would be that they felt that there is not much scope for growth beyond a certain level as the company is not growing. The fat ass folks are sitting tight. It is tough to make changes, even for Satya as he knows most of the fat ass folks, who have been with him for all these years.
I left MS the last time because I was getting bored. I knew how to manage the system, had a great boss and VP. I could have continued for many more years, but did not want to look for a job in my 50's.
"I truly believe that age and health insurance usage were factors in my getting managed out. For four years I had gotten 3s. Then my wife developed breast cancer. A year later I got a 5 and was out the door after that review. [...]"
Not even possible. If you knew how companies funded health insurance for it's employees, then you'd know that Microsoft would not significantly benefit enough (either indirectly and directly) from laying off one employee.
So just because you see b happen because of a, doesn't necessarily mean that c is true. There is no concrete evidence showing what you say is true.
Given that insurance companies are really the ones that eat those costs (not MS) the only the insurance companies could do to penalize MS would be to raise the premiums. One employee (or even set of employees) is not enough to do that.
Coupled with the fact that the health care system is out of control anyway, prices always increasing (and they've fought back with high deductible plans) shows how radical this thinking is.
I do feel for your situation though. God speed.
Looks like Windows shut off access to Source Depot purposely during this timeframe to large swaths of folks. There's some reports that this is impacting other orgs across the company and that they are being lead to believe this is normal downtime. Such shady practices.
Anyone have more details?
"Right, that's why
Windows 8, SUCKS
Windows Phone, SUCKS
Ford Sync, SUCKS"
You conveniently forgot to mention all the successes which I won't bother doing since you already know what they are, mr. straw man.
"I truly believe that age and health insurance usage were factors in my getting managed out. For four years I had gotten 3s. Then my wife developed breast cancer. A year later I got a 5 and was out the door after that review. [...]"
"Not even possible. If you knew how companies funded health insurance for it's employees, then you'd know that Microsoft would not significantly benefit enough (either indirectly and directly) from laying off one employee.
So just because you see b happen because of a, doesn't necessarily mean that c is true. There is no concrete evidence showing what you say is true.
Given that insurance companies are really the ones that eat those costs (not MS) the only the insurance companies could do to penalize MS would be to raise the premiums. One employee (or even set of employees) is not enough to do that.
Coupled with the fact that the health care system is out of control anyway, prices always increasing (and they've fought back with high deductible plans) shows how radical this thinking is.
I do feel for your situation though. God speed."
Microsoft used to be self funded in the old benefits model
If you are over 55 with 15 years tenure, all stock held more than a year will continue to vest. I believe this is also true if you are 60 or 65, with no tenure requirement.
=========================
==============
Is it going to impact India Bangalore Gtsc support people?
==============
Who gives a $hit about that rat hole? These are 2 cent support people who know nothing but "Thank you for calling Microsoft" and somehow are on a high horse.
Newsflash you vermin in Bangalore, you are only hear because you are CHEAP
===============================
I sense racism here.
According to Nadella the layoffs were motivated to have “fewer layers of management, both top down and sideways, to accelerate the flow of information and decision making.”
However, half the lay offs are eliminating obvious redundancies arising from the Nokia acquisition. The rest seem mostly concentrated around poor/middle performers, eliminating whole teams (Xbox Studio), testing (SDETs in OSG), marketing, remote employees, etc. Is anyone aware of significant reduction in management layers beyond whole teams being gone and localized reductions? A few people here and there across all of Microsoft hardly seems like a significant reduction in management layers.
I think the main reason for layoffs (other than obvious redundancy with Nokia acquisition) is that Microsoft's business has been doing and continues to do very poorly (think Surface, Windows Phone, Win 8, etc). Other areas that are doing ok aren't doing great compared to their competitors (think Azure vs AWS, Xbox vs Sony, etc), or contributing enough to the bottom line to make up for the large string of big bets that have failed to go any where. A business that is not growing in new areas is basically a dying business. So they need to rein in expenses (cut people) to keep the business going and shareholders (at least somewhat) happy.
I left Microsoft 2.5 years ago after 13 years and went to the bay area working for some hyper growth cloud SaaS companies. There's a big stigma on people who've been at a big company (like MS or anywhere else) for so long and many won't be interested in you because of that. Once you get past that and build up some relevant skills and experience in non-MS technologies you will be fine. There’s so much opportunity out there, my biggest regret is just staying at Microsoft for as long as I did…
>>I sense racism here.
Just a smidge. The trolls are feeding. One suspects most of them aren't Msft, but as we know it takes only one fast typist to sound like a throng. (Is it too cynical to suspect that this is some perma-5 human blast shield sitting in his office with nothing better to do? WOULDN'T WANT TO BE CYNICAL RIGHT NOW AFTER ALL.)
Seriously -- hang in there all, whatever part of the globe you're from/on; this alum (2010-13) assures you that life really is better with 148th St in your rearview mirror.
Hello, Thanks for creating this blog.
Question: Do you know what happens to current 401k from my employer after layoff?
and
Is it advised to withdraw the balance? and what's the implication?
Thanks much.
On layoff side, I know there were great people also affected. The layoff is not performance based. On the other side, there are many open head counts. Why not fill them up with people who are really great.
-BP
Newsflash you vermin in Bangalore, you are only hear because you are CHEAP
===============================
I sense racism here.
=================================
No. Unlike others here I have no problems with Microsoft H1Bs. At least they contribute to the local economy, pay taxes etc.
These idiots in Bangalore have have singularly driven Microsoft from having the best customer support in the enterprise to among the worst.
I know this because I worked in CSS and now work in a major MNC support Microsoft products.
"Microsoft used to be self funded in the old benefits model"
But not recently enough to have any influence on the reviews or lay offs taken place in the past 8 years. In this time frame, it has always been handled through an insurance company. Giving little incentive to drop even a group individuals, just because they're using insurance. I've worked for much smaller companies, and have seen other employees go through similar situations without any problem. Microsoft has plenty of other places to cut its costs than to even remotely risk the headache of this.
exchange test team story is very real. i was a part of exchange and decided to move out. when they started the datacenter team (headed by satish krishnan) the culture went downhill across the discipline. i am not surprised that engineers spend more time sucking up to their bosses rather than honing their skills. the roi is much better. when i looked at people getting to senior in the test org, it made me laugh.
i liked steve connor's leadership and i feel bad for him. his directs have blurred the ground reality for him. the sdets in that team are below average developers not capable of writing real code and building real products. they can only do live site monitoring, deployments and reporting. sorry to say this but it is true.
"Is anyone aware of significant reduction in management layers beyond whole teams being gone and localized reductions?"
Part of the problem here is that the far, far less managers and leads than ICs. So you can't expect the headcount number comparison to be just greater than the other.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2014/07/18/to-help-boost-growth-should-microsoft-sell-nokia-to-lenovo/
"For reasons that elude me, Microsoft’s stock has risen 25% since Satya Nadella became CEO. And I expect that to continue because of the role of hedge funds like ValueAct which succeeded in getting one of its executives onto Microsoft’s board. ValueAct will push for changes in Microsoft’s corporate strategy — such as getting rid of Xbox."
I spent the worst four years of my otherwise successful career at Microsoft. I was hired as a level 65 industry expert in epg and as soon as I was in they didn't care a whit about my expertise. Soon after I was hired they re-orged and I got a new manager. Here's a conversation I had with him:
Him: "You need to show leadership."
Me: "Ok, well what does that look like to you?"
Him: "That's up to you, you're an executive, figure it out."
Me: (In a cartoon bubble above my head) "What a douchebag, I need to get out of this madhouse."
And I did. Now I am again on track with a great job at another company.
Part of the problem at Microsoft is pure hubris. Here's an example. I was recently contacted by MSFT to see if I could help connect my new company with MSFT to use one of their products. On the call the MSFT person asked me "How can you use product X?" I said "That's not up to me to figure out, that's up to you." MSFT person said "This call isn't going the way I expected."
As long as MSFT sees themselves as the dog in every partnership, and every partner the tail, well, things will continue to deteriorate. Because companies only do two things, they make stuff and then they sell it. And most of the sellers at MSFT couldn't sell beer in hell.
-BP
==================
Your 401K is yours to keep. My advise is don't withdraw it because there's a big penalty for doing that. Instead roll it over to your new employer's 401K or if not to a IRA.
> Is there life after MS?
Guaranteed.
p.s. Assuming you are prepared to learn some new ways and hold no racial prejudices (there is no room for the latter in good workplaces).
Question: Do you know what happens to current 401k from my employer after layoff?
and
Is it advised to withdraw the balance? and what's the implication?
Assuming you have more than some minimum (which I think is $5,000), you can keep the money in the Microsoft 401k indefinitely. And unlike many companies, you can make changes to your investments even after leaving (they are not locked), although you cannot add any new money in.
The funds available in the Microsoft 401k are generally good, and the fees are better than you will see in many other offerings. Leave the money there, keep your investments balanced, and start a new 401k with your next employer.
"shyam habarakada" don't forget to logout first before you post your comment :)
There's more and more murmuring going on that Source Depot was purposely shut off by Windows org! Xbox is affected (right as their August release is winding down so this may impact release dates next month). Also getting word that Azure is impacted too. Apparently they can't make certain customer fixes without SD though I can't confirm that. Poor paying customers lol what a mess
Anyone know if there were any layoffs in Bing? Haven't received any information about it yet
"Assuming you are prepared to learn some new ways and hold no racial prejudices (there is no room for the latter in good workplaces)."
It's not about race, I don't like H1bs from any country. On the other hand the Indians all seem to have BO and curry breath and the Muzzies have some weird bathroom habits. I mean what's with taking the cup of water to the crapper? We use TP here in the west.
"I mean what's with taking the cup of water to the crapper? We use TP here in the west."
Can someone explain this? I always wondered why someone leaves a cup of water by the toilet in my bldg.
"I always wondered why someone leaves a cup of water by the toilet in my bldg."
I have always noticed it was Achmed and his bro's from the Middle East carting them in.
I think the right hand is used for you know what and the left hand is used for eating out of the communal pot. Violation of this protocol causes a hand to get lopped off.
First, I really feel sorry for employees at OSG. I quit MSFT 3 months back after spending a decade there in SDET lead capacity. And I resigned without a job at hand. It was a good break from politics and today I am in a much bigger and better organization. Don't get me wrong, the organization I am in is not a perfect world but it is much better than MS.
MS lost its shine long time back. They have egoist still thinking that Windows is the best OS in the world and Office can survive us for a century. Look at how they have lost it. MS still has some great product but they are all dying a slow death.
I am surprised that SDET ICs got the major axe in OSG. The pile of crap in MS SDET discipline starts from top. 99% of leads/managers can't write a simple sorting routine in any programming language of their choice. They used to be smart people but the technology world is very bitter. If you don't program, design you forget things faster. I have managed lots of ICs and majority of them were sharp and intelligent. MS should actually get rid of people with titles leads/managers and it would be a much better place to work for.
In MS no longer innovation or hard work is getting recognized. This is the recipe of being successful there:
1. Create a problem or wait for it (whether it is product delay, an extremely critical bug not found early etc.)
2. Now try to find out why it was missed, come out with some great (repetitive ideas) of solving it, talk to the management up to get it approves and make sure everyone knows.
3. Go ahead and mint your review based on the implementation
Now where is the motivation for people who ensure that these problems do not happen at all. So see how crap starts building so fast up the hierarchy.
People will give you feedback that you need to manage up. Yes, sure! How do you do that? Since they are not technical at all, trying to impress them with technical skills is absolute waste of your precious time. So good people change to get promotions, good reviews and be one like them. And there lies all the problem.
I am afraid, firing ICs ain't going to solve any of these.
Now this might be a smart move too! Think of all the Senior leads now becoming IC and have to code. Doom for them! I still remeber how hard it is in MS to get to Seniior SDET. This is because they stack rank you with leads and there is no way you can better them. This is the reason why people (even knowing they are bad at managing things) become leads. Win SE and several other teams also used to have a title called Test Lead 2. Hmm, when it is time to code and learn technology you are BSing around politics.
This is what exactly happened in OSG few months back. SDET role was re-defined (confused) and they came out with a scenario based organization. People without any knowledge of a particular area were named managers, come on we are building a OS! Their boss decided whom to include and not to include in next level. It was more about favoritism rather than competency. So now you landed with a totally chaotic organization with no vision and scope defined. It's no surprise that this firing was bound to come and top level management will keep their jobs secured by ensuring how hard they worked to get this done.
In my decade career at MS, I saw so many re-org that sometime I used to think where is the time for innovation.
This is indeed last chance for MS to come back but I would not bet my money on a comeback! As others have told, there is a life beyond MS and is much better…
"I think the right hand is used for you know what and the left hand is used for eating out of the communal pot. Violation of this protocol causes a hand to get lopped off."
That's enough. Nobody is laughing at your stupidity, and you couldn't have made it anymore obvious that you're just one sorry person actually coming up with this crap. You're juvenile, we get it. Go back to the playground where you belong. This place is for civilized adults.
=================================
I always wondered why someone leaves a cup of water by the toilet in my bldg."
I have always noticed it was Achmed and his bro's from the Middle East carting them in.
=================================
Well I don't know where this is going but just fyi. as per their book they have to wash their penis after everytime they pee.
ex-SDET OSG.
Left four months back towards the end of the "Reorg".
I have been skimming through the comments looking for how the new SDET or QA role in OSG is morphing.
Perhaps someone can shed more light.
I always wondered why someone leaves a cup of water by the toilet in my bldg."
I have always noticed it was Achmed and his bro's from the Middle East carting them in.
=================================
Well I don't know where this is going but just fyi. as per their book they have to wash their penis after everytime they pee.
-------------------------------
EWWWWW!
How come they can't re-use the same cup? Man there are stacks of green Microsoft coffee cups all over the place. Perhaps when MS gives out the schwag cups they should let them know they are not just for coffee.
Here's another rumor: The layoffs are not done yet. There is a second wave coming for PMs (and few devs). Satya wants lesser PMs and more accountability. Once things are settled at IC level, 3rd wave will yank off unnecessary leads. They want leads to be people managers - not technology managers (as it used to be).
>Here's another rumor: The layoffs are not done yet. There is a second wave coming for PMs (and few devs). Satya wants lesser PMs and more accountability. Once things are settled at IC level, 3rd wave will yank off unnecessary leads.
This actually makes sense to me, too bad it was not communicated this way.
So far we know, layoffs are not done yet. Layoffs will hit Office (among others) in the next 3 to 6 months.
Isn't it over for C&E & OSG?
Yes its over for OSG, so far I know.
My upper management sent a notice that ALL affected individuals would hear by mid-day Thursday. That time came and went, and I know of a bunch of friends who are leaving. The cut came quickly and decisively for me. I am relieved to know there is no axe hanging somewhere over my head.
When I was at MS 15 years ago, there was only 1 indian guy, now, there is one 1 that is not. I wonder if their culture is one that heavy on cronyism? Not race bashing, but my observation has been the influx of indians have been so overwhelming.
Will the next phase of layoffs hit Bing and Azure?
When I was at MS 15 years ago, there was only 1 indian guy, now, there is one 1 that is not. I wonder if their culture is one that heavy on cronyism? Not race bashing, but my observation has been the influx of indians have been so overwhelming.
The PM roles will change. Embrace feedback loops such as customer behaviour, A/B experiments or flghting. Become very data driven to design your features and you will be fine
I was let go with 3 other people from my group yesterday. All of us were over 40. A mix of high performers and rest and vest.
Any insight into the plans and changes related to CSGs?
"The PM roles will change. Embrace feedback loops such as customer behaviour, A/B experiments or flghting. Become very data driven to design your features and you will be fine"
I'm a PM in OSG and I can say the idea of this transformation excites me _greatly_. Part of me has been jealous of my counterparts in Azure that have been focusing a lot more like this. I love the idea of learning new things and developing skills like this.
"Anonymous said...
Anon @ 12:10:00 AM:
The reason Test is so screwed up in MS is because of the Indian and Chinese housewives who instead of sitting at homes become test leads
haha this is so true! Whats up with all these foreign housewives types, constantly getting pregnant, etc, and keep on climbing the ranks at MS so quickly? Is there a secret deal to hand out 1 promotion per pregnancy @ MS?
Goal: have 3 kids and reach manager level, 4 will get you director
"
You pathetic fools, I don't think you even work for Microsoft, or ever did so. You are just lazy, bitter losers, except for gender discrimination you can't even write a single line of code. Being housewife is not the reason they are successful, being able to think, work, and work hard is.
If you are so angry, ask your wife to find a job, or, find a wife that can do so.
Will the next phase of layoffs hit Bing and Azure?
WRT Source Depot: I think it's pretty clear that all the servers were pulled offline as a precaution. I expect them to remain offline until all the new permissions propagate through the AD forest. While I can understand management's paranoia, I think the least they could have done was to send a general email after the servers were taken down -- just as a courtesy. (So much for all the "transparency" Satya keeps talking about.)
On another topic, I was appalled by Satya's performance at the QA event this morning. More word salad from our self-styled philosopher king. It was almost as if the firings yesterday didn't happen at all.
And that woman -- the 20-year MSFT veteran, who rambled on about sleeping under her desk during Windows 95 launch. By the time she finished talking, I thought my ears were going to bleed. And after all that, what was her question to the God-King? "What books have you read recently?" Really?!
Two different people thanked Satya for being so "approachable", yet neither one felt safe enough to ask a touch question.
"Transparency", my ass.
Here's the memo outlining the new policy for a six-month break for all "external staff," including vendors, after 18 months.
http://www.geekwire.com/2014/internal-memo-microsoft-cut-external-staff-18-months-requiring-six-month-break/
Nope. I'm LCA, and was let go yesterday.
There was one pointed question at the Q&A. Referring to BillG's 2002 security memo, somebody asked how customers are supposed to have faith in the security of the OS platform if testing is being deemphasized.
Nadella brushed off the whole issue with some nonsense about the nature of threats being different in a cloud-based world, so old models of trustworthiness no longer apply.
Another Stupid Idea brought to you by the Procurement Group:
So it was just announced that all vendors will need to leave after 18 months for 6 month hiatus on 12/31/2015 in an effort to protect Microsoft IP.
So...90,000 vendors currently. That means let's say 60,000 will still be here in 18 months and so on Jan 1st of 2016... 60,000 people with Microsoft IP in their heads will walk out the door....and go find work elsewhere. Stupid. Procurement should be summarily fired for this kind of negative "value add"
For all those who seem to be surprised at the large number of comments about Indians and H-1Bs, these views are far more prevalent than you think. It's just that in face-to-face interactions they are hidden behind a facade of good old American politeness. Their real attitudes are expressed on online forums like this.
"So it was just announced that all vendors will need to leave after 18 months for 6 month hiatus on 12/31/2015 in an effort to protect Microsoft IP."
I don't think that this has anything to do with protecting IP but everything to do with decreasing our reliance on vendors. They just don't want to say that explicitly, which again demonstrates a lack of transparency. Agreed that it will likely cause our IP to migrate with the vendors.
The 18-month limit is definitely about IP, as proven by the fact that it only applies to workforce that have access to the building and the network. So if you work for a vendor that is contracted through Microsoft, and do not have access to its networks and buildings, then this does not apply.
Also, MS does not have 90k vendors. Not even close.
Well with only the leads left, they will have to do the jobs of their reports. Since most leads don't know how, or dont want to do actual work, they will move on or out.
Nadella brushed off the whole issue with some nonsense about the nature of threats being different in a cloud-based world, so old models of trustworthiness no longer apply
Not surprising. Satya was never known to be overly concerned with security issues.
>>>>Nadella brushed off the whole issue with some nonsense about the nature of threats being different in a cloud-based world, so old models of trustworthiness no longer apply
>>Not surprising. Satya was never known to be overly concerned with security issues.
And the independent security research community rejoices. Hard to think of a better housewarming gift for GoogleZero, most of whom are generally game for some good fish-barrel-smoking gun fun at Microsoft's expense.
"Got laid off today at Windows Phone marketing along with 1 other. 12 years of service. Only 3 left in my team. 2 of them, Chine$e, can't even hold a conversation let alone sell $h1t. "
To the xenophobic guy who posted the above comment - I guess the Chine$e work hard and do their job instead of yapping away like you do. I do know that in Microsoft talkers are given more preference. At least this time someone found out talkers must go. My sympathy for you on losing your job but no sympathy for your toxic comment.
"For all those who seem to be surprised at the large number of comments about Indians and H-1Bs, these views are far more prevalent than you think. It's just that in face-to-face interactions they are hidden behind a facade of good old American politeness. Their real attitudes are expressed on online forums like this."
Well of course it's true. You don't want another strike against you for being an American, especially when your boss or someone up the ladder is an Indian or a Chinaman".
Seattle was a much nicer place when it wasn't full of these third world heathen dogs.
Hey, they can practice their cronyism and I will be polite but disgusted by them.
Why so many H1b hater?
Microsoft only sponsors 2000 H1bs a year, for many nationalities.
Most of the Indians at Microsoft got their H1b through Indian contractors like Infosys and Tata and HCL: each of them sponsors 2000-9000 H1b visas a year, that is more than any other H1b visas amount by entire other nations.
In fact, even while Microsoft is planning its biggest layoff in history, it just awarded $100 Million to Infosys, which is 90% Indian and accused of discriminating against American workers.
So, if you are angry, be angry at the right people: the Indian contractor giants and their enablers like Mr Nutella... Don't be angry at many foreign born talents who have nothing to do with this travesty of justice, and who over the years contributed to Microsoft every step of the way.
"Don't be angry at many foreign born talents who have nothing to do with this travesty of justice"
You know, it's hard to go after Ballmer or Nutella so we direct our anger on the H1-B. Maybe if a few skulls got busted like in the days when we had unions, the Indians would leave and there would be more jobs for Americans.
I wonder if the IC vs Mgr cut was to flatten the 'lowest layer' (from the nutty perspective) and turn that lead mgr layer back into IC. Dumb but not unthought of in my experience. So much for the 'parallel track' of IC and mgr...
"I mean what's with taking the cup of water to the crapper? We use TP here in the west."
As people wash their b*m using water after taking a dump. I would assume the TP is dipped in the cup of water and then used to wipe their b*m.
-my 2 cents :)
As an observer of this discussion. The anger, the hate, and the negativity I read is a waste of energy. I would think some of the world events of late would serve to remind us to make the best of each day, or frankly make way so the rest of us can.
"As people wash their b*m using water after taking a dump. I would assume the TP is dipped in the cup of water and then used to wipe their b*m."
Check this out. They wipe their arses barehanded. That's the one they use to shake hands with the infidels with.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091207002702AA5NHCM
I was one of the 1400 people who were let go in the RIF in 2009, and it is with interest that I read the comments on the current announcement. The tone of the comments and questions is quite similar to that back in the day. I thought I’d share some notes, having been there before.
There is definitely life after Microsoft, as mentioned by many commenters. The current business climate in Puget Sound region is quite different from what it was in 2009, things are healthier, more upbeat, there is tons of work for those of you who are technical in nature, and probably also for those who are not.
I was in services doing very technical things, and was let go because of a) not getting along with my manager and b) not looking like a very good number. I took some extra time off after my second son was born, and in services my utilization looked terrible compared to peers. The parental leave and time off was not supposed to be counted against utilization, and I eventually (within 1 month of separation) reconciled the numbers of utilization that I had against the numbers I pulled out of the utilization reports (snatched from the network in last few days before my badge was terminated). I did it because even though I was terminated, the UBI portion of my bonus was due to me, and it was driven by utilization (U) I complained and eventually received a note that my numbers were correct and my payout was adjusted accordingly.
I was quite bitter in the beginning, but that very quickly went away. I received my severance (11 years in company == ~ 5.5 months of pay), landed a job with 30% higher salary right out of the gate, and then got a nice performance bonus from that company within 6 months for doing good work and bringing new business. I’d say sweetness of money counteracted the bitterness of being let go rather well. Few months after that, an Associated Press reporter somehow got my contact information and interviewed me over the phone, and when I told her about all that, that was the last I’ve heard from her – I think misery sells and I just wasn’t a sob case.
Oh yeah, I also drew on unemployment for about a month. It was a bit weird for me, especially filling out job search reports and having to go to WorkSource training (which I missed couple of times and LNI was quite upset about it). But I did find a job pretty quick so I didn’t care too much.
Couple of years later I decided to find out if I was permanently banned from Microsoft and I interviewed for L64 position in two different groups, passed the interview both times, received the offer and turned it down for not matching what I was making elsewhere. So (at least for me) there wasn’t a black mark.
In retrospect, I believe I simply looked like a shitty number in the Utilization spreadsheet to someone. Seeing how my current manager and I didn’t see eye to eye, it’s not surprising that I got the axe.
On the question of 401K, I left mine at MS, I occasionally rebalance it. There isn’t a problem with taking it somewhere, but I like the funds. The biggest hassle is fending off Fidelity people who call me every few months trying to help me deal with it, which I do not need.
In my opinion, if you were let go, be upset, sure, but realize it’s just a job, and in 2014 you can find a new one a lot easier then 2009. Amazon is there and sucking all kinds of people in (although it has it’s own issues), there are tons of startups around, and indeed if you want to pick up non-MS things, it’s easy and lots of opportunities for it. I happened to have stuck with MS stack and haven’t been bored yet, but my current consulting company is rapidly diversifying off MS stack and I should probably go where the wind is blowing.
... continued
… continued
I just read the new a- and v- 18 months on and 6 months off policy, oh, that’s not so good. I think it’s going to hurt quite a few individuals who are doing work as well as groups at Microsoft. My wife has been v-dashing for more than a 12 years now, including 3 years with the current group that loves her. She’s going to be really pissed. Some companies whose bread and butter is v- and a- are really going to just pass the pain down to the individuals in those positions. This to me smells like another clever MBA strategy and the way it’s justified is just so disingenuous.
As orange badge for 4 years myself, I worked with one of the groups straight for 4 years, including a project that was ~18 months long, if I had to take a break in the middle would have impacted this project and the nicely built relationship there.
… continued
I just read the new a- and v- 18 months on and 6 months off policy, oh, that’s not so good. I think it’s going to hurt quite a few individuals who are doing work as well as groups at Microsoft. My wife has been v-dashing for more than a 12 years now, including 3 years with the current group that loves her. She’s going to be really pissed. Some companies whose bread and butter is v- and a- are really going to just pass the pain down to the individuals in those positions. This to me smells like another clever MBA strategy and the way it’s justified is just so disingenuous.
As orange badge for 4 years myself, I worked with one of the groups straight for 4 years, including a project that was ~18 months long, if I had to take a break in the middle would have impacted this project and the nicely built relationship there.
Maybe if a few skulls got busted like in the days when we had unions, the Indians would leave and there would be more jobs for Americans.
You know, the Pacific Northwest is not unfamiliar with busting Indian skulls. The Bellingham riots a century ago forced Indians to move to Canada (or return to India, I guess.)
The "external staff" policy leaked at http://www.geekwire.com/2014/internal-memo-microsoft-cut-external-staff-18-months-requiring-six-month-break/ has three big effects:
1. Doubling the break helps prevent teams from constantly re-hiring their favorite a- and just stumbling along during their 100-day breaks.
2. Making a- and v- the same as far as breaks means there's no advantage to vendors and they can't be used to work around the a- 100-day break.
3. The biggest change is that the six-month break applies to ex-FTE too. That's new -- plenty of people laid off in 2009 came back with a dash. Seems like a bit of a dick move to someone who might have found a match as an a- or v-.
"EX-MSFT AMERICAN PROGRAMMERS"
Excuse me did I see a typo or should it be read as
"EX-MISFIT PROGRAMMERS" ?
so many racist comments on people who've been hired to work here...I have a few questions to the immigatnt who as been questioning H1B visa holders..are you a true blood tribe or yourself who belong to america inherently or you are one of those immigrants who landed on those ships...does not look or sound good from another immigrant...if you're nt a native american then you are an immigrant too, now rant over!!
Test orgs seem to take the first round of hit. When is it the PMs turn to take the much deserved cut?
"Hey, they can practice their cronyism and I will be polite but disgusted by them."
Cronyism is so much uglier when done by people who aren't white.
"the Indians would leave and there would be more jobs for Americans."
But not the Indians who are now American citizens, right? We're cool with them, right?
I would like to know about the real native people who were massacred by the immigrants, who is going to take the responsibility...IMMIGRATION and IMMIGRANTS really !!!!
Lets talk about Indian American's...LOL such and irony.... even they are known as Indians
"American IT workers get used to it, or REBEL!"
There are a couple of Senators that seem to be willing to champion our cause. Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Chuck Grassley of Iowa. I think Cantwell and the other one from WA are in the bag though.
I think the only thing that is going to get any attention though is what someone else suggested, which is to act directly against the Indians and Chinese.
The unions in this country, which brought about our middle class standard of living had to "bust some skulls" before they were given their due. Things are reverting back to the pre-union robber baron days.
Actually, many that fought on the Union side of the Civil War wanted to stop slavery not for some high minded moral idea but because it represented competition for their labor.
We have an unofficial unemployment rate of %25 in this country. When things get bad enough people will take matters into their own hands.
I hope it means plans to stop abusing long term CSGs who should have been enjoying FTE benefits all along. MS had for too long skirted IRS rules on perma-temps, esp those like me who are required to work onsite with highly confidential NDA-laden info.
"Cronyism is so much uglier when done by people who aren't white."
That's the problem, whites do not look out for each other. We have been brainwashed by fetish of diversity. Diversity is our strength. Yeah, BS.
The Indians are street smart. They are here to colonize.
Worship at Satya's feet dogs!
EX-MSFT AMERICAN PROGRAMMERS
You are facing a difficult road ahead while an H1-B holds a job that you could do.
Your family is going to suffer because a foreigner has a job that is rightfully yours.
Time to get active and let your Senators and Congressman know what you think!
Been to Bellevue Square recently. Notice who has money.
Look around, these are your new masters unless you act.
HEY HEY HO HO - H1Bs GOTTA GO
All the other countries get a fraction of H1b visas of the East Indians,
including the Chinese and the Europeans. Go look it up. East Indians through companies such as Cognizant, Tata and Infosys, and through cooperation of leaders like Nutella and Ravi are the main/SOLE occupying force throughout financial industry and IT industry.
No point making more enemies than you could handle. Make friends with the lesser evil or we will be ganged up on, and thrown out of some lucrative markets and lose our moral superiority.
INCOMPETENT/INEFFICIENT...RANTING THEIR HEARTS OUT...ROTFL
I hope it means that msft plans to stop abusing long term CSGs who should have been enjoying FTE benefits all along. MS has for too long skirted IRS rules on perma-temps, esp those like me who are required to work onsite with highly confidential NDA-laden info.
Beef eating white man... You die now!
I'm on a PM in a group with a 3:1 ratio. To me that seems pretty safe, no?
This nation always was comprised of foreigners, and we've been all the better for it. The only true Americans are the native tribes that watched from the shore as everybody else arrived!
"It also doesn't help that most non PMs find PMs useless."
Stop derailing the conversation; this is a forum for racist comments only.
Just a few weeks ago, Microsoft awarded $100Million contract to Infosys (who has like 20000 imported H1b visas on America's soil)... Hahaha, layoffs for you Americans while I, Mr Nutella, give your bounty to my countrymen...
Don't get mad, organize yourself and yell it out. Microsoft got plenty of federal contracts.
Mr. Obese and Miss. WhiteTrash have a problem working with a Chinese but don't have a problem borrowing money from them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States
"47% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreign investors, the largest of which were the People's Republic of China"
What I want to know (being in SMSG side as an engineer) is what/when will come for those of us outside Redmond? My leadership team is making it out like we are all safe, but based on what I hear here, no one is safe.
Racist immigrants!!! rant over
Are there going to be any more layoffs at Puget Sound ?
Feature suggestion for blogger: Change the captcha to require you to post a racist comment about Chinese people instead of guessing at an image.
"Just like Qualcomm and Vmware and Cisco, where Indian managers are laying off Americans and hiring Indians and discriminating the heck out of Americans"
If you can prove this allegation, you are indeed sitting on a goldmine and can make tons of money filing a lawsuit and forget about working for the rest of your life.
I like the above point, come forward and tell your story..and make oads of money
I like the above point, come forward and tell your story..and make oads of money
Here are the reports of the same discrimination going on in Qualcomm:
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/mar/09/citylights1-american-engineers-short-supply/
Here are the reports of the same layoff-Americans-outsource-Indians in Cisco
http://www.computerworlduk.com/in-depth/outsourcing/2133/cisco-quietly-outsourcing-to-india-cutting-jobs/
Here are the reports of VMWare, layoff Americans in Jan-2013, then invest $120M to expand in India in March-2013, $500M to expand more in India in 2014
http://redmondmag.com/articles/2013/01/29/vmware-announces-mass-layoffs.aspx
http://www.dqindia.com/dataquest/analysis/186037/vmware-invests-usd120-million-india
Here are reports of IBM having more Indians than Americans:
http://nypost.com/2013/10/05/ibm-now-employs-more-workers-in-india-than-us/
Nokia is the same way, "bing" for Nokia layoff, Nokia outsourcing and you see the same pattern.
This news about activism against racial-discriminator infosys got 6000 comments within 2 days. That's how radioactive this Indian invasion is becoming:
http://news.yahoo.com/backlash-stirs-us-against-foreign-worker-visas-135208422--finance.html
Microsofties you are not alone in becoming victims of Indian invasion.
There are rumors that Microsoft Bangalore is hiring even as jobcuts are being announced in Redmond and elsewhere.
Now if you go to any companies: Qualcomm, Cisco, VMWare, Intel, you see far more East Indians than Americans or any other ethnicity for that matter. Where did the American engineers go? Unemployed? Becoming real estate agents?
Americans, you are killing your own IT talents and parasitizing your own nervous system. Wake up or submit to your new overlord
I for one welcome our new Indian overlords. Butter chicken for everyone!
incompetence can make people think and do a lot of odd things,that's why people are ranting racist comments...incompetence to change can lead to a situation like the dinosaurs...but they always taught at school that america was the nation of the native indian american...not the white immigrants that came from outside on huge ships, go back to school an come back later , good luck
As a fresh-hire from college who is supposed to be starting as an SDET on Windows Server in September, how worried should I be?
to the racist troll
You want blacks to go back to their $hit$oles too? after all they take all the music, NFL and NBA jobs.
How about the Mexicans- they took away all the cleaning, landscaping, agriculture jobs?
3:1 Engineer:PM ratio may be ok if you are in customer facing product (best case scenario). For infra heavy projects I heard ratio would go down to 10:1.
If you are in PM role, then I would suggest to focus on data, A/B testing, cosmos etc. Most of the PM roles would evolve similar to PIM (Product intelligence manager) roles in yammer.
I am here in Redmond on an H1B and I am from Dehli. My experience has been that we are necessary because there are too few qualified Americans with neither the skills nor the intellectual capacity to perform in the software industry.
Don't blame us, blame your society and its inferior education system. Too many young Americans are lazy and self indulgent. They are incapable of performing rigorous study to succeed.
The fault is yours.
As for cronyism, don't you think that it's natural for people to be with those that are like them?
HEY HEY HO HO
Let your senators know
Indian Chinese Mexicans Blacks- all must home GO GO
If you are laid off and are a US citizen, file a complaint with the Department of Labor attesting that an equivalent H-1B worker is doing your work.
Karen Jones from LCA will not know what hit her.
I think Satya's points are valid though I am yet to see its execution.
1) We have to flatten the org:
The best execution on this would be to eliminate leads/managers positions, PERIOD. That is the only way you could flatten it and personally its a good move.
I never found the lead role justified. Infact its more of an hurdle. I mean as a growing developer I dont at all need my Lead to manage or tell me what to do and if you think you do
then clearly you are not looking at becoming a senior soon.
By eliminating few thick layers that we have build over these years we can definitely be more productive. I would like to see something I want to change happen quickly
instead of getting stuck between those layers. But again eliminating IC's does not reduce the layer since we are at the bottom of this chain.
That does not mean lay off the leads or anything. Just make them IC's or merge them to an upper layer. Use surveys to see what people think in organizations about
processes and hurdles in getting things done.
2) Make processes fluid:
This would be a good change too. Imagine not getting an oppurtunity to grow in a team and just getting up and trying sommething else in a differnet team without going through
a trillion interviews. Why do I have to go through so much just to prove myself again ? How is this a One Microsoft thing where you doubt on the skills of your peer ?
By having people from different teams you always end up making your team more energitic because knowledge keeps flowing.
Yet to see this happen though.
3) Platform and Productivity team:
I second this. The day Ballmer bought Nokia "devices" I knew somebody would have to pay for it. What were you thinking ?
What will drive tomorrow is not these devivces but data. I always believe we do an excellent job in what we are good. Hardware was not our thing and we should
not have invested there a lot (some are exceptions ofcourse). Lets see how this execution works out now that we have this useless thing.
The transparency and respect thing mentioned regarding people losing their job is absolute BS. Did you go and ask those people getting laid off if the process
was respectful enough ? Dont draw such superficial conclusions. There are companies who do it the right and respectful way and sorry we are not among them.
Ambitions looks big and bold but at the end of the day results it what matter. Satya may read a lot of books and I do too but quoting phrases out in thin air is
way easier than getting things change executed to the very last team that is waiting to see this change.
Not every teams management will embrace this and would come up with interesting justifications of this layering,
these useless interview loops and decisions.
For folks who lost thier job my heart goes out for you all. I am sure you will land up somewhere good. But this also
sends a message to the remaining of us. The company only cares for you so much. So stay prepared.
American jobs belong to Americans... not Indians or Chinese. These jobs are rightfully mine, and if these foreigners weren't here I'd be working at Microsoft. I may not be as qualified or be able to do as good a job, but I am good enough.
HEY HEY HO HO - H1Bs GOTTA GO
I've been at Microsoft for over 15 years as a PM and have worked in and with many different groups. I feel very confident in making the following statements:
1) Microsoft is a place that celebrate diversity. The racist and anti-immigrant comments do not reflect my personal experience with Microsofties in any way. I expect those comments will be removed by Mini soon. I'm so very proud that our company has an Indian born CEO (no I'm not Indian). It clearly reflects our company values. I know many of us are going through the comments looking for information about the layoff and it's unfortunate to have to see that garbage at all, fucking trolls.
2) Microsoft is all about work life balance. The number one reason I've heard over and over again of why people declined to go to Amazon is that work life balance is so much better at Microsoft. You can work crazy hours as much as you want, but it's not required to do well. At the end of the day you are responsible for your own work life balance and I've found that Microsoft is nothing but supportive of it.
I do wish information about which teams are affected is shared more broadly so I don't have to try to find out from here or through the office grape vine. I understand that the information is not shared out of respect for the affected teams but it does conflict with the stated goal to be transparent about the layoff.
"These jobs are rightfully mine, and if these foreigners weren't here I'd be working at Microsoft."
So true but our congressmen and senators are bought and paid for. My grandfather was a teamster and in his day, with mob influence, they managed to dish out a little justice.
I doubt if the 21st century tech nerd is capable of performing such an act. Wish it weren't so but that's the country we live.
"1) Microsoft is a place that celebrate diversity."
You have drunk too much diversity Kool Aid. Americans should look out for their own. People like you make me want to puke you traitor.
"2) Microsoft is all about work life balance."
You are so full of $hit. Worked there for six years. They squeeze you for all the time and energy you got and then when you are burned out throw you away.
If I was within punching distance your teeth would be down your throat.
I think Satya's points are valid though I am yet to see its execution.
Agreed that we have to do merging there but looks like IC getting more effected
That 6 month off policy for contingent staff is going to *wreck* the progress of a lot of groups and make work life balance awful for the remaining FTEs.
I doubt new FTE headcount is going to be available for doing the work all those vendors were doing. "Do more with less", indeed.
If you want to see evidence of cronyism check out the org tree of zijianz
Look out we got an internet tough guy here!
"I think Satya's points are valid though I am yet to see its execution.
I dont agree with you that we should not invest in hardware. If we leave this to the OEM probably we are out of market sooner.
The only fte left on my team is someone who underperforms so severely, his contracted employees went to another contracted employee for guidance and help with the words: You know more than he does. He does nothing and knows nothing.
This was not merit based at all.
I'm sure something is coming in ASG, looking way too calm as of now. Anybody know anything about ASG?
What shortage of software engineer? It's a manufactured myth: http://fortune.com/2013/08/05/the-myth-of-americas-missing-software-engineers/
And as to the diversity coolaid, East Indians are getting 10 times more than any other nationalities, including the much-hated Chinese who gets all the blame somehow.
American grads of good American universities are being passed over because some Indian grads are imported with fake resume and fake experiences and even fake interviews (someone else answered their questions for them). Good American grads like Jack Dorsey can't find jobs. Jack Dorsey founded twitter, but most American IT grads without a job, just changed careers and told their younger sibling/friends not to study STEM.
And Indian managers created the "demand" for their countrymen's fake wares by laying off American workers and rolling out the carpets to welcome their co-conspirators in their quest for American IT domination. Behold the glory of Natella
What shortage of software engineer?
The average starting salary of a chemical engineer is around $65K. Pretty good, right? But for a software engineer it is $102K - $105K at Microsoft. If there is no shortage why is the salary for software engineers so much higher than all other branches of engineering?
1) Timing: Post WPC, after pumping up the partners about how great Microsoft and its products are, a $30M convention; Layoffs before MGX. Another $30M convention where bad behavior and excessive drinking are the norm; Translate the cost of those two conventions in to salaries and that is 300-500 employees whose jobs could have been saved; 2) Those FTE left will be asked to work excessive hours, work they have never done because they always had vendors to rely on to do the work; 3) Quality FTE being let go (sad face) along with the crap managers (happy face). Still waiting for the bloated directors and senior directors to be fired who work 30-35 hour weeks, making all the IC do their job, take credit, then ensure they get horrible reviews to save their a$$es. Expect next round of layoffs to be driven off performance reviews. Remember those of you FTE remaining, last years 3s and 4s become this year's 4s and 5s. You think you are safe. But face reality. You should be sprucing up your resume. If you are 20 or 30, don't worry too much. The 4s and 5s are given to people over the age of 40. Class action lawsuit in process if you want to join http://badmicrosoft.com/
Ex-MS employee, left long before the layoffs. My take, after lurking through here, and talking to a bunch of friends at MS that made the cut and are now looking to bail as soon as humanly possible:
"What possible reason would a sane person STILL have left for staying at Microsoft?"
MS is not a software company anymore. It's laughed at everywhere else, it is basically akin to IBM. How many memos of reinventing yourself do you have to write, and I count about 7 since SteveB left, before something good actually happens???? You folks see Bezos, Zuck, Page writing any memos? Have they ever even?
If you value your worth as an Engineer, do yourself a favor and leave while the brand still has some luster and you have the leverage of being employed. Start here: www.amazon.com/jobs. And you're welcome.
Most of those being laid off are at low levels. It won't save the company that much. All the talk about health insurance is BS. That doesn't make a dent, comparing to the cost of the principals and partners. Let's just consider the principal band. Typical bonus is 20%, and max around 40%. Base salary changes per level, as well as target stock. Consider that, at a minimum, those take home the base salary. In the mid-point, half the bonus and half the target stock (and let's consider they accumulated that consistently over the last 5 years). And then there is the possibility of a start performer (or start sucker) getting near the maximum compensation. Those would be, per level (and considering the typical salaries).
L65: Base: 160K, Stock: 75K. Min: 160K, Mid: 224.5K, Max: 299K
L66: Base: 180K, Stock: 150K. Min: 180K, Mid: 291K, Max: 402K
L67: Base: 200K, Stock: 330K. Min: 200K, Mid: 405K, Max: 530K
Let's not even go into the partner band, because we don't want to get into obscene numbers for people that at times don't know who to start Visual Studio if their life depended on it. What needs to happen is really a cleanup on the principal and partner bands. Laying off SDETs I and II is just a pathetic attempt of pleasing Wall Street.
"Now if you go to any companies: Qualcomm, Cisco, VMWare, Intel, you see far more East Indians than Americans or any other ethnicity for that matter. Where did the American engineers go? Unemployed? Becoming real estate agents?"
You need to sense an opportunity here, open a restaurant to cater to the East Indians provide Real estate service charge them a hefty commission/fee. They took away your jobs and salary ? Time to get it back via providing service to them and get back your money. That's how you need to sense a business op.
Odd that that part of the severance agreement that must be signed is that you won't sue MSFT for age discrimination....
Anonymous said...
"These jobs are rightfully mine, and if these foreigners weren't here I'd be working at Microsoft."
These jobs are for skilled engineers. Location where your mom managed to pop you out does not matter that much.
"And Indian managers created the "demand" for their countrymen's fake wares by laying off American workers and rolling out the carpets to welcome their co-conspirators in their quest for American IT domination. Behold the glory of Natella"
Like I said earlier, if you can gather sufficient proof to prove your claim you can be a millionaire
"A former American employee of Infosys, who had brought a whistleblower lawsuit against the IT giant, could receive between $5 to 8 million of the total $34 million that the Indian company has promised to pay to settle the visa fraud allegations."
When you got a bunch of caged monkeys, the more food you remove from the cage, or the smaller you make the cage, the more the monkeys fight amongst themselves.
The hilarious thing is that the authors of these H1-B / ageism / whatever posts think their badly written and transparently false screeds are remotely persuasive to the highly educated work force at Microsoft.
Let me clue our non-MSFT readers in: the people behind these screeds are possibly agitators from WashTech (http://washtech.org), a wannabe technology workers union in Washington State. They're doing this because they have an agenda to get power on our backs, not to mention big fat monthly union dues. Needless to say, 'softies have been smart enough to give them the cold shoulder for as long as they've been trying.
If you want to side with them, that's your privilege but can you imagine the DailyWTF? style hell that you'd be in if these barely literate clowns were your co-workers? Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.
>The average starting salary of a chemical engineer is around $65K. Pretty good, right? But for a software engineer it is $102K - $105K at Microsoft. If there is no shortage why is the salary for software engineers so much higher than all other branches of engineering?
words from new grads are: Indian managers are only hiring Indians or promoting only Indians. So new grads or experienced can't compete with people with fake resumes and with good culture fit. The Indian grads come away with 5 offers even though they know nothing, because well, "culture fit" rules in the India's 2000 year old caste based culture.
Location where your mom managed to pop you out does not matter that much.
Nice try, but the law says it does. Even if I am a little less skilled you have to make do with me.
HEY HEY HO HO - H1Bs GOTTA GO
L65: Base: 160K, Stock: 75K. Min: 160K, Mid: 224.5K, Max: 299K
L66: Base: 180K, Stock: 150K. Min: 180K, Mid: 291K, Max: 402K
L67: Base: 200K, Stock: 330K. Min: 200K, Mid: 405K, Max: 530K
Thanks for the info. Just understood why some people I know won't leave Microsoft by themselves. They won't be able to find a job making that much anywhere else. And I do know some partners far worse than those principles.
Discrimination Lawsuits are coming. Pitchforks too.
Emperor Nutella is naked underneath the fake "diversity" clothe.
Microserfs get a spine.
Indian managers are only hiring Indians or promoting only Indians.
Out those Indian managers here. What are you afraid of? If the org tree is almost entirely Indian, Chinese, Russian, Romanian or whatever, name the manager. Here's one: zijianz
HEY HEY HO HO - H1Bs GOTTA GO
I'm a v- and right now I am not looking for another position. My Dice resume is active and my Linkedin resume is posted there. I have received an unbelievable number of inquiries this week and today I got 7 inquiries alone about positions. At least 3 were v- positions at MSFT and one was actually an SDET position. I think MSFT is actually going to use more contingent workers and having the ex-blue badges barred from working for 6 months is just a way to implement the policy effectively. Yeah by cycling through contingent workers they can keep labor costs down I guess. Kind of interesting that it applies to people only working in the good old USA but I don't really want to get into that too much.
I just think that MSFT shot themselves in the foot with this layoff and the damage to their reputation in the developer community is immense. If you are an exceedingly talented developer with a blue badge what possible reason would there be to not be looking elsewhere? If you are a new grad with a lot of possible places to go what would make you choose Microsoft? Stock price is up substantially since 2009 so I guess the street sees future earnings potential as ok so I guess I could be wrong. We'll see.
Most unions aren't racist these days. Racism tends to be associated with Republicans - which is very anti-union. There are racists that take on the mantle of economic populism though - usually fascists.
It's sad to see the level to which the comments have fallen.
Racist baiters succeeded in getting the worst out of a bunch of folks on both sides of the racial lines.
At the core, most folks are good and decent and do care about the other person, irrespective of origin.
I'm confident that once the extremely small minority of racist baiters move on to other fertile pastures after their slash-n-burn, we'll get back to a meaningful conversation and debate.
Anyone check who's been made Partner lately? Really??
Seriously, someone tell me again the value these Partners are providing to the company?
I mean, if they are truly the rock stars of the rock stars, then how come the company is where it's at right now?
Where testers (for crying out loud...) are the fall guys?? 'cos y'know, them testers are the reason MSFT missed the boat on all the shifts that happened in the industry.
'cos who knew the testers were actually The Keepers of The Key??
I keep hearing of teams "up leveling". Then these Partner types get brought in, and what happens? See headlines on MSFT.
I have heard of many PM's being laid off in OSG. Based on org/project, not just trimming low performers.
I know of several leads that were laid off so it was not just ics this time.
Many leads and managers were stunned by the announcements. Most of them won't be leads managers anymore and are just as confused as you are.
@"Most unions aren't racist these days."
Who said anything about racism? Don't try to confuse the issue. We aren't fools.
Unions are very much against H1Bs. All the evidence you could possibly want is just a Bing away. The WashTech guys have been trolling here for ages. Connect the dots, people, and post here to make sure other people connect the dots.
If you want to throw it in these guys faces, try "HEY HEY HO HO - THESE UNION SHILLS HAVE GOT TO GO". (The grammar and spelling is fixed, of course.)
Sounds more like an attempt to prevent non-whites from unionizing by presenting a racist strawman.
Guess Terry could see the writing on the wall for THRESHOLD.
Here's a quote he can use in his 2015 annual review to explain why it failed to meet even the lowest sales expectations.
"We made some big changes in the organization that are ultimately the right moves for Microsoft (because I would never make a mistake). But the execution and timing of those did not align well to meet the release timeline. Synergy, cloud, OneMicrosoft."
Good question for next Satya Q&A
There's one piece of good news regarding this new 18 month vendor policy. Once an H1B visa holder is out of a job, they have 30 days to find new employment, or they have to leave the county. Since MSFT is pretty the only place these stinking, curry-eating vermin from Tata, HCL, and Infosys have infested and there isn't another tech company big enough or reliant enough on vendors, they'll be forced to go back to the shitholes from whence they came.
@"Sounds more like an attempt to prevent non-whites from unionizing by presenting a racist strawman."
Most programmers have heard of Occam's Razor. Have you?
Feel free to keep trying to confuse the issue, though. Both our posts here are permanent and people can judge for themselves what's really going on.
good question for next Satya Q&A
In the words of Jay Gould, "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."
Say what you want about him, but you gotta admire his ability to handle a crowd.
It would be a pity if they eliminate leads. I think leads are the real leadership backbone in this company. At the Dev Manager level I really have not seen much leadership - people or otherwise. If we want 20-30 people directly reporting to a dev manager , we better be hiring all principals because he's certainly not going to be able to mentor or grow them.
they'll be forced to go back to the shitholes from whence they came
Amen, brother. And MS will be forced to hire us. These jobs belong to us Americans, whether we are qualified or not. My mouth is already watering, just thinking about all the stock grants I am going to be enjoying soon...
HEY HEY HO HO - H1Bs GOTTA GO
I'm betting that 100% of the racist comments are coming from the same 3 non-FTEs.
Along the same lines of penis envy if you will...
Completely agree about the actual value (or NOT) that Partner level people bring in.
My experience is most of them are pontificating windbags past their prime. But busy ensuring that they remain on the payroll to maintain their expensive lifestyles.
> These jobs belong to us Americans, whether we are qualified or not
Better not to hire at all than hire unqualified. You'll keep on sucking your own dick while companies move or outsource.
> These jobs belong to us Americans, whether we are qualified or not. My mouth is already watering, just thinking about all the stock grants I am going to be enjoying soon
Lol, for a second there you almost had me successfully trolled. Hats off to you xD
@"In the words of Jay Gould, "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."
Say what you want about him, but you gotta admire his ability to handle a crowd."
More subtle this time; I like it.
The union organizers of the early 20th century were brave heroes, willing to risk life and limb for safe working conditions, reasonable hours, and a living wage.
Can you or any other reader here say the same with a straight face of these H1B baiting clowns cowering behind anonymity? Are these your "heroes"?
Yeah, I didn't think so.
most of the discussion is BS in the comments section..
Lets talk some sense..
I have talked to many people in and outside MS and this is what I conclude.
If you are an SDET..
Dont believe you management on your job is safe because of some BS business justification or trimming is complete in your group. If you are an SDET, think hard about value you are adding and value your group is adding. If none is adding value, get super active on all CRs and jump on to any opportunity of dev work items. partner with dev, take challenges and constantly assess your situation and dont believe what your management says.
If you are a PM... learn more on what product developers do, sharpen your data/maths skill, learn A/B testing, cosmos, talk to PMs that have already started dealing with the data (PIM in Yammer). No other company has so many PMs and status quo is not going to continue. There is no real value of traditional PM when we have started getting so much data and data has all the answers.
If you are dev/engineer... learn to ship feature all the way from design to implementation to testing to deployment. Your success will be assessed by number of features you have shipped and how many customer bugs reported for your features. You own your career and dont expect there will be 1:1s with some people manager. You manage your career and deliver features and you will be assessed on metrics and not your people skills. Expectation will be that you will use your people skills to have higher impact and number of features is propotianal to impact.
20/70/10 review system is being brought back. Expect announcement as early as coming Wednesday.
People falling in 10% will be called for an HR meeting in September. They will be given a soccer jersey with "10" written on behind in lieu of any bonus or merit increase. They will need to either resign or agree to wear the shirt for the next one year.
Jai Ho!
If we are laying off people and hiring at the same time , does this mean that we're not capable of relocating talent from where it is to where it needs to be?
Wow, Mini, see the degeneration this forum has turned into.
The Trolls are clearly out with their smelly selfs.
Maybe that's why you gave up on it all after a while, hey?
Clearly no room for debate on how to correct clearly one of the best companies (next to HP before the demise of H & P).
RIP H & P.
Satya, Philosophe King wannabe, if you withdraw just a bit from your own belief of the persona you've created, you'll be awesome and actually make an impact on Tech History.
Otherwise, you'll be Board and Shareholder sacrificial lamb when the stock price dips in the next 18 months.
>If we are laying off people and hiring at the same time , does this mean that we're not capable of relocating talent from where it is to where it needs to be?
It probably means that the laid off people aren't eligible to be rehired regardless of what HR is saying publicly.
Let's remind ourselves that the 1st layoffs in the History of MSFT in '08 and '09 were knee-jerk reactions by weak-kneed supposed leaders (yes led by none other than good ole SteveB), who thought the sky was falling.
While smarter companies actually doubled down and reinvested.
When MSFT laid off folks in '08 and '09, they KILLED something special. That magic of what it meant to work in MSFT.
History repeats in 2014.
Ballmer was a disaster as CEO.
Satya is merely the Clean Up Guy.
Deal with it, yo.
Sen. Jeff Sessions (Alabama) stood up to Gates and company in light of the Microsoft layoffs on 7/18. He delivered a scathing speech on the Senate floor that questioned the need for more foreign tech workers.
Finally, someone looking out for American employees!
Article: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9249837/U.S._Senator_blasts_Microsoft_s_H_1B_push_as_it_lays_off_18_000_workers?taxonomyId=126
Is there room for a middle ground position on H1B visas? Can we agree that some level of worker mobility is needed in a global economy but at the same time agree that maybe it's just a little bit too easy for some of these folks to come over here?
If we take out 100% of Partners, how much will the company save?
OR putting it another way, what's the ROI on Partners?
OR putting it another way, why is it that kids with no obligations other than ensuring that they have bathroom facilities close by are kicking our collective asses off the map?
Don Box, WHASSUP UP???
Hmmm, lets see, the trolls are smelly, the Indians they are lambasting are also smelly, and of course the stench of the diversity loving, brain-washed Seattle libtards is the foulest of them all. All of you apologist fools who have allowed the once beautiful Redmond/Bellevue to turn into a section of the subcontinent, there's a special place place in hell where you'll burn.
You know, I bet if Dipeshkumar Subramanian came to your home right now and fucked your wife and daughter, you'll hold hands with him and sing Kumbaya because to do otherwise would be racist.
>>"Got laid off today at Windows Phone marketing along with 1 other. 12 years of service. Only 3 left in my team. 2 of them, Chine$e, can't even hold a conversation let alone sell $h1t. Someone please send these ping-pongers back to their communi$t roots ...
There is a good reason why you got laid off. You kind of gave us a hint about the reason. yes you can hold a lot of conversations (maybe concurrently, so cool). But how helpful was it? Yes you can sell tons of $sh1t. but where is the shit in the market? The world can't see it. Your Chinese coworkers didn't get laid off because the CEO is a Chinese or the president is a Chinese?
Oh Lord Almighty, we're bringing in Alabama into the discussion...
I want to see my pillow-headed bros and their burning trees truly rear their Troll heads here. You guys are TOTALLY progressive. Get in touch with the Taliban. There's SYNERGY there.
Hey, anyone hear a good joke lately?
How about this. Camel walks into a bar. Says he's built the world's biggest skyscraper in the desert. Guy next to him says it's a mere mirage!!!
(polite laughter ensues. 'cos 3/4 of the population missed the punch line, know what I mean??)
What is up with this Zoher Bharmal (zoherb) guy
He is an escalation engineer and thinks of himself as a super duper qualified person who thinks ever Indian should be given a green card and their wives should be allowed to work even on H4 visas. Today he is recommending job mobility for laid off people
This is the mail he sent after the layoffs
"Today was a sad day. Layoffs are sad for employee and employer both. Been an active volunteer for Immigration Reform, my heart reaches out to those who got laid off while they were on OPT/H1B/140. They now have to rush and find another job on H1-B which is so stressful. After dreaming of a green card, a layoff can suddenly turn the life of a non-immigrant into another direction. What we need is a fair Immigration process where legal documented high-skilled non-immigrants can get job mobility. The Job mobility can give relief during Layoffs.
Immigration Voice is working behind the scene to reach out to White House and Congress. Because Congress has failed to pass a bill, we are currently seeking Presidential Action to get some relief measures for people without green cards. These measures are put in the attached NOTEPAD file –
There is some rumor that President Obama may use his Execution Powers to give employment authorization to undocumented with Graduate degree. Fine. If the President can give EAD to undocumented, then what about the legal skilled immigrants waiting in line? In 2012, the President gave EAD to undocumented Dreamers. But the DACA act did not cover legal H4 kids of H1Bs and spouses of H1Bs. Why? Because we are not vocal. The high-skilled community is not vocal. We tend to ‘accept’ our misery as ‘fate.’
If you support Presidential Fixes for some relief measures for high-skilled immigrant community, please sign this googledoc form. It is only two pages. Estimated time to complete is two minutes. IV will try and use this simple information to reach out to Congressional Offices and White House.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/14OW3enYaWaQ9ZFEGMZNl8pPr6EBSqkXDfZFkABxVBcQ/viewform
How else you can help?
Advocacy is a very expensive process going into tens of thousands of dollars. Help the cause by donating $100 or more at:
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/misc.php?do=donate
LIKE www.facebook.com/immigrationvoice
Immigration Voice is the most proven and only true well-wisher of H1Bs/L1/OPTs/L1/H4/L2s whose wait time for green card is likely to be one-two decades. Please help us to help the community.
"
My husband was laid off yesterday; he had been with the company for over 15 years full time. HR couldn't even bother to put a stamp on the envelope to return his signed severance package paperwork. What a great send off for nearly two decades of work. Thanks for nothing, LisaB.
Vitriol of hate in the US of A is no different from the vitriol of hate that killed millions of Rwandans, butchery by the Mongols and any other barbaric hordes irrespective of color, creed or religious beliefs.
Such emotions are perfectly natural and tap into our ancient animal instincts of survival vs death.
SO, have patience on the Haters. It's all about their primodial genes just needing the time and space to play out.
Let's just hope and pray they don't push the trigger on peaceful and unsuspecting 298 souls flying at 33,000ft.
C&E report:
- ScottGu sent an email shortly after Satya on Thursday morning mentioning layoffs. Absolutely no evidence of anyone being laid off.
- I'm an SDET on Azure, we're all being converted to an E2E role with talk of a data mining/telemetry approach in the immediate future.
- Everyone in Azure is freaked out.
- SD is indeed shut down until Monday morning, leaving us dead in the water for hotfixes, which we ship all the time.
- The test team is currently negotiating it's role with Dev/PM, and currently assisting Dev with taking on the functional automation testing.
- The test team apparently still has active reqs for new hires, so probably OSG SDETs given that MSFT can't get new H1-B visas for 18 months now.
- The PMs look quite worried, probably from reading this blog. :S
- My test lead was really nice today for once. :)I think he's pretty alarmed.
Yeah, that's the funny thing about this whole business. The same people who are saying their awesome leadership is going to get us out of the quicksand are pretty much the exact same people who got us *into* the quicksand. Those of you who are happy about these cuts and changes should ponder that for a moment.
Look at, for example, the OSG SDET cuts. While it's kind of funny to see devs trying to deal with their own messes, you all know they aren't going to ramp up fast enough to do enough testing to ensure quality and the remaining 'data scientist' SDETs aren't going to be able to cover the gap, regardless of what that peabrain Fortin thinks.
Hope OSG doesn't trip over the Threshold but I don't see how they won't.
Ahh yes, Threshold and the Data Scientist.
I'm not holding my breath on fast deployment to customers to validate an OS.
I mean, if I'm Bank Of America, with Trillions at stake, do I really want flighting and data gathering to indicate if the version of the OS my business is totally dependent on is ready for prime time??
TO:
"CUT ALL YOU WANT BUT PLEASE DON'T COME CRYING THAT YOU NEED MORE H1B1 VISAS!!!!!
Microsoft are awarding hundreds of millions in contracts to Infosys, Tata Consulting and HCL! Each one brings over thousands of H1bs on fake resume to America supposedly to help cut cost."
As of today, contractors can only work with a Microsoft badge for 18 months, then they have to not be a on a MS for 6 months. So if you come to the US, you'd better be planning to go back. It is not a permanent assignment.
// As of today, contractors can only work with a Microsoft badge for 18 months, then they have to not be a on a MS for 6 months. So if you come to the US, you'd better be planning to go back. It is not a permanent assignment.
This could have been done to facilitate Infosys, HCL and the like. It is applicable to US and there is nothing stopping these contracts to be outsourced and these jobs will disappear permanently in the US. In a way it is good if the H1bs work here on contract as they are atleast paying taxes and spending on curd rice. Atleast they buy the curd here although rice and curry powder is brought from India during the annual trips
"You know, I bet if Dipeshkumar Subramanian came to your home right now and fucked your wife and daughter, you'll hold hands with him and sing Kumbaya because to do otherwise would be racist."
"Microsoft are awarding hundreds of millions in contracts to Infosys, Tata Consulting and HCL!"
If these probable union guys spent as much time polishing their skills as they did H1B baiting, they'd actually be working for Microsoft by now. When you hear the name WashTech (http://washtech.org), think about these twinkies. If you see their posts, call them out.
Folks, folks, folks, listen to me. I'm very sorry for everyone who got laid off, that can be devastating, but it is a necessary step for the survival of the company. We're not getting rid of test, or PM, but we're trying to find the right balance, just like Google and Facebook (go on and do your research, they have these disciplines, they may call them different names, but they have them, lean and efficient, and that's what the company is pushing for. Without SDETs and PMs, there will be either a lot of supporting tasks that the dev will have to do (preventing him/her from working on the features), OR the dev won't do it at all, building debt and paying the price later on (many teams (if not all teams) that had no test team are now rebuilding their test team, using SDEs). It is the reality, the work matters and somebody has to do it. Yes, the dev can do it all, no question about it, but it will take time & effort, hence either the engineer will slow down, or the quality will degrade so much that no one will use your system, or you won't do the upfront research that the PM team does that you'll ended up developing the wrong product for the wrong audience. With lean and focus disciplines, the company will thrive.
most of the vendors these days are from chinese companies and not indian outsourcing companies. Chinese companies mostly operate on model of most of the team off shore and handful of folks in redmond.
"Microsoft are awarding hundreds of millions in contracts to Infosys, Tata Consulting and HCL!"
Microsoft actually makes more money by selling to and through these companies.
Please dont call data pulling/mining as data scientist job. Pulling data from cosmos is no where close to real data scientist job. Its as fake as you are "Developer" of tools or infra if you are SDET.
My team went through similar change and I (test lead) and my team started extensively working on telemetry. We were made to believe that we are data scientist and we were doing low level work of pulling data from cosmos and analyzing the data. After spending 12 months and becoming cosmos expert, cosmos skills took my team to no where. I wish my team focussed on C# related work more than cosmos/telemetry.
Telemety SDET != Data scientist
Hey SDETs, grow up.
Your job was never real to begin with.
Atleast in the minds of people who knew jack about what it took to ship software after code was checked in.
So now it's time to hand the keys to the folks who are know-it-alls.
Good luck ensuring critical functionality for BoA.
Wait until quality reaches the crapper and MSFT starts losing BECAUSE of Quality, in addition to paradigm shifts.
If people weren't expected to unionize anyway, there would be no reason to warn against unions anyway, would there? Unless that is just a piece of reverse psychology, meant to advertise the union - I mean you're providing the full URL after all - or is the warning just meant as a "vaccination"?
Ironic that MSFT feels the T in SDET is no longer necessary.
Developers do a terrible job at testing their own code.
Software quality will only continue to go down at MSFT...
"If these probable union guys"...
You are fooling yourself if you think this is some sort of conspiracy message. The cultural cronyism is so obvious it hurts. Take a quick look through the GAL and you can see for yourself. Indian manager has 8 directs and they are all Indian (replace with nationality of your choice). That is the issue. You may be trying to make yourself feel superior for drinking the "diversity" kool-aid but these folks are ignoring it and laughing their asses off.
I don't work at MS anymore, but I see the same at my workplace. It is disgusting and people like you are just putting your head in the sand.
The H1Bs are a separate issue but ultimately the push by Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, etc is just corporate greed. If India is so full of genius engineers, why can't they make their own successful product? The fact is the biggest 10 Indian tech companies are all IT/outsourcing.
It blows my mind that MS is getting rid of the test discipline and handing it off to devs and what, data scientists? That seems crazy to me. As an IT PM focused on user experience, Test has always been a tremendous resource for deep product knowledge. Is the plan really to move towards flighting and A/B testing? Is it a wholesale change in that direction or is this just a change in emphasis?
feeling sorry for people who faced job cut. But I am wondering how come balancing IC will solve the issue. If someone who is incompetent, is management.
Yes, job cuts are indeed a management issue. They don't know how to use the resources they have, so they admit failure, throw up their hands, and say, there's nothing that can be done. It's always easy for those in power to blame those who can't retaliate. Teachers blame students for being dumb rather than admit they can't teach. Parents blame kids for being naughty rather than admit they're bad parents.
Still, sometimes management would like to keep as many people as they can, but shareholders want their pint of blood. When shareholders expect you to make cuts, they often won't take no for an answer.
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